Think Bigger Realtor Success Strategies (Toby Mathis Podcast)

– Hey, guys, this is Toby Mathis with the Anderson
Business Advisors Podcast. I’m joined today by Justin Stoddart. He works with real estate agents. I’m gonna let him tell a story. But I think he’s actually
a great guy to have on. I’m excited to hear what he has to say. We’ll just jump off. So first off, welcome, Justin. – Thanks, man, I really
appreciate it, Toby. I admire a lot of what you do
from previous conversations and it’s an honor to be on your show. – I appreciate that and it’s mutual. Tell the world what you
do and then why you do it. – Perfect, I appreciate it. My day job is I actually work for a title and escrow
company, Old Republic Title out of Portland, Oregon. And I really get the privilege not of doing the title and escrow work, but of more on the
business development side. So my role entails acting
as a business consultant to real estate agents,
helping them to be better at what they do, to
better serve their clients and just serve more clients. In that work I’ve really found a passion around helping
well-paid sales professionals from all different industries
recognize the threats that are coming at them right now
and how to rise above them to remain well-paid and
remain really fundamental in the transaction that they’re a part of. – You just hit on
something, that technology is changing so much and especially
in the real estate world and the information sharing world. You can’t just sit back
and say, I’m a realtor and therefore you need to come through me and buy a house, or sell a
property, to work with something. What are you seeing in your world? Again, in the escrow and title world because you’re working with nothing but real estate agents, I’m assuming. What do you see as people
are separating themselves and making themselves relevant? – It’s really interesting,
you said something, Toby, that agents are no longer
entitled to be in the transaction. For years, they’re the only
ones that had the information. Obviously that changed when they opened up the MLS systems to Zillow and others. And now information was
accessible to the general public. And beyond that, now tech
companies have created offerings that start to minimize what
a real estate agent does and therefore gets paid, and/or eliminates the real estate agent
entirely from the transaction. It’s really no different than what we’ve seen in insurance, right? With many of the online shopping portals and even going further back than that, and into the travel industry and others. The thing that I’d like to point out, the difference between
those industries is that, if you really mess up on buying
an airline ticket, it’s not the end of the world, right? You catch another flight, you get to your designated city and all is well. You mess up on a real estate
transaction, you mess up on making key tax decisions
like what you provide, and the ramifications
are much, much bigger. I think many of these tech companies are trying to tell the tale that it’s as easy as going online
and shopping for insurance. – Yeah. – You can go to an HR Block for example, and as you pointed out, we
had a conversation before is that you might save
a little bit of money, but what you net is gonna be drastically different
when working with an expert, as opposed to working with a technology offering
and a low paid worker. I don’t know if I answered
your question, but I– – No, I think you’re right that a lot of people, the true value of somebody knows what they’re doing is that they’re a net
positive, in other words. – Yeah.
– Not only do they cover their own cost, but they put
more money in your pocket. I think that’s in just about everything, and a lot of folks are really enamored by this idea of technology
and in real estate. We’re seeing it all over the place. You’ve got Zillow, and Red
Fin, and all these other guys. Are they actually buying properties now? Am I understanding that correctly? – Yep, in Vegas, where you’re at, in Portland, where I’m
at, it was interesting. We had a really well-versed
agent here in our area track, a company by the name of
Open Door, they came in. They buy a property at wholesale and sell it at retail, right? And they don’t say it like that, but it’s clear that
they buy and they sell. They don’t buy and hold. So obviously they’re gonna buy
with the intent of buying it at some sort of margin to
where they can flip it. This particular transaction
was sold to Open Door and they flipped it and
resold it four months later for about $50,000 more than they bought it for, including repairs,
including carrying cost. So, yes, it was more convenient. But the downside is that that client lost a premium
for that convenience. This isn’t 100 extra bucks,
this is $12,000 a month for four months that they gained
and gained in convenience. – Well, walk me through a day. When you’re doing Open Door, are you still paying any sort of realtor fees or anything like that? Or is the reason people do it is because the transaction costs are so low? – It’s not because of that. That’s a great question. The reason why people do it is simply out of convenience is that they
don’t necessarily wanna stage their home, repair
their home, get it ready to go to market, nor do they
necessarily have it open for other people to come through. They just wanna get it off their hands. They just wanna be done. And so the fees are disclosed. It’s between eight to 10% is what was disclosed
on this particular property. – Wow.
– It’s obviously higher than what you’d pay real estate agents, but in addition to that
there was a premium. They sold them at a much different rate. All that included, that’s where the $48,000 to $50,000 came in. That’s how much it costs those clients to have that convenience of getting the property
unloaded in a couple of weeks. – All right, Justin, before
we dive further into that, because that’s really interesting. I wanna go back to that in a second. But I skipped right over who you are. You said you’re in Portland, but what got you into real estate? – Yeah, I love it. I was raised by a family that was in real estate, both purchasing
as well as investing. I’ve always been around it. And I flipped properties
early in my college years with the help of some investors
that actually went to school to study
construction management. – Oh, wow.
– I went to work for a high-end home
builder and eventually left and started my own home building company. Built one to $2 million
homes in the Utah market. Did that for a number of
years until 2008, 2009, at that point, the business opportunity of high-end home building wasn’t there. It went all the way down from
luxury custom homes to kitchen and bathroom models, to I was excited to win a project to build a deck, and I thought, I’m out. (laughing) And it was some good introspective time because I had to realize, if
I really love building homes, then I’ll wait five years
for this to come back and I’ll slug it out. But my passion wasn’t building homes. It’s always been building
people, really growing people. Hence my show, my movement,
the think bigger model. And then, secondly, is growing business. I’m fascinated with strategic ways to position businesses to help them grow. And so I got out of the industry for a few years during the big downturn and then was recruited back to work for a title company, and
that’s what I do to this day. So I helped large, actually,
Old Republic title here in the Oregon market. Just today, we’re actually celebrating our five years here as a direct operation. – Congratulations.
– 112 years as a company, but five years here as an operation. And we’ve passed some
companies that have been here for decades and decades,
so it’s been a good run. – How’s the Portland market? It’s gotta be a little nutty
there right now, right? – Yeah, it’s interesting
because we have what’s called the urban growth boundary, where they don’t allow for
urban sprawl to happen. They keep a belt, if you will, around the sprawling neighborhoods. And what happens is it just
constricts supply, that together with we don’t have a really
building friendly area. And so we end up having
more demand than supply. So it keeps prices artificially high. At the same time, we
profess to keep costs down. I don’t know, there was some
conflicting theories often from the same people, that we
wanna keep housing costs low, you don’t wanna restrict supplies. Anyway, it totally makes sense. Nevertheless, it helps keep prices, again, artificially
higher than they would. Portland experienced in 2008,
2009 the same things that the rest of the country
experienced, but again, that limit of supply helps keep
prices on the higher end and a little more stable
than in other markets. We’ve had some new legislation
that has come out here over the past year that’s caused
some outside investors to sour on Portland, which are pretty heavy rent
controlled, landlord, tenant laws that haven’t been landlord friendly. It’s an interesting place. It’s a beautiful place. People come to Oregon because of the lush trees and the
valleys, and all that stuff. But from a real estate standpoint,
there’s way more demand than supply and I think that will help us stay strong regardless of what happens with tariffs in China and all that stuff that, barring some kind of unforeseen catastrophic
event like in 2008. I foresee our market to
have some settling out. We have Seattle which is kind of a precursor to what our market does. It experienced a little bit of downtick in their overall pricing. We expect to see something similar, but kinda more, some plateauing and then more steady inclines as opposed to the sharp inclines that we’ve had over the past number of years. – Yeah, you guys just skyrocketed up. Seattle’s got Amazon going nuts. – Yeah. – I went back to Seattle. I lived there 27 years. I went back–
– Oh, you did. – And didn’t recognize South Lake Union. They’d just built so
many buildings all over. The big question for you in
Portland is there’s two of ’em which is, are you a Voodoo Donut fan? (laughing) And, B, you’ve got Mt.
Hoodmouth, what do you got? Mt. Adam’s there, don’t you? – Yeah, it’s a beautiful place. The donuts are good. Voodoo Donuts creeps me out. I went there with my kids– – Wait, wait, wait, you brought
your kids into Voodoo Donut? (laughing) – It’s a–
– You’ll only do that once. – I know, right? I don’t know that I’d go back though. I was like, “This place creeps me out.” I love that they do voodoo in the back, but it definitely wasn’t a warm fuzzy place you
wanted to take your family. – No, no, no, they’ve got
some interesting donuts there with some interesting things. You can go look ’em up online. (laughing)
I’m just teasing. So you work with the
real estate agents there which is a very competitive marketplace. How do you differentiate? And I should ask you this
before we answer that is, do you think that your,
real estates what you do? – Yeah.
– Is that nationwide or is that focused primarily
in the Portland area? – Yeah, we’re working on
going to a national audience. So we definitely are constricted
to Portland area people. That’s where my network’s at. I’ve gotten probably more
guests from this area than not. The gentleman that I was
interviewing this morning was the number two agent out of New Jersey, at Rimac Station out there. So definitely looking to expand. I really feel passionate
about my message which I know is very similar to yours and I think that’s probably
where we get along so well, is that well-paid real estate
agents and sales professionals are in trouble unless they
really double down on innovating at a pace that’s equivalent
to that of technology. I think, again, what’s
happening is that technology is coming and replacing
well-paid sales people with the technology and with low paid workers. And so in order to remain
well-paid sales professional, whether it be in your
industry, whether it be in mine, agents need to
become less salespeople and customer service representatives. Those parts are being
replaced by technology and become more advisors,
become more experts and take whatever it is that you sell, whether it’s title insurance,
whether it’s real estate, whether it’s tax preparation. And layer some layers of expertise and good advice because that’s
what will differentiate you. And I think that’s how agents, how they have to differentiate. For years, it’s been, I’ve
got better photography, I’ve got drone photography. Even that’s now becoming commoditized. If you don’t have that, you
shouldn’t be in the game. Now it’s really, who can
provide superior knowledge and insight that is helping
their particular clients have either a preservation of their wealth or an increase in their wealth. And that’s why I absolutely
love your mission, Toby, of what you guys are doing because there’s so much opportunity, even so
much more than I even realize after our conversation,
just in listening to you and following your
podcast which is amazing. I’d encourage anybody who’s
not subscribed yet to do so. But the amount of wealth
that people can preserve for themselves and earn for themselves, if they’ll get expert
advice is phenomenal. The same thing is true in real estate. And the more that real
estate professionals become real estate advisors and they really start
helping people preserve and grow wealth through real estate, the whole fee conversation
is off the table, right? It doesn’t matter anymore. So what if you’re another 1%, but you help people preserve
eight, or nine, or 10% wealth, or make a decision based
on where, when, what, and how, that really
moves the needle for them from a wealth standpoint, just like you guys do
on the tax survey now. To me, that’s where well-paid
sales professionals across all industries have to go and must go or they will be replaced by
tech and low cost workers. – First off, thank you for
the kind words that you said. – Yeah, I mean ’em. – I wanna make sure that
we’re focusing on you, but I always like it when
somebody likes us too. (laughing) So then we were talking about
earlier, with these folks that were, Open Door,
paying the higher fees, and something you said which
was, it was convenient. And I think that a lot of times salespeople, we’re
not the most convenient. We don’t make it easy for our clients. And clients consume information
in so many different ways. At the end of the day, you
can automate only so much. And you’re gonna have to have
a human being that guides you, especially in situations like real estate. These are huge purchases, and a misstep can cost you so much. Are you guys, again, I’m
still boggled by, Open Door, that they, what was it? Open Door, where you still paid
10% or something like that. That’s just crazy. – Between eight and 10%. – What are the agents doing
that you’re working with, that’s bridging that gap
so that they don’t lose to the technology and that
they keep their clients and grow their clients. – I think part of it is being
aware of other offers, right? Not slamming them, or slandering them. This is seeing a new way of
slamming open door, eye buyers, the reality is they’ve got
a great business model. And if they can convince people from a convenience standpoint, it’s like a convenience store. You walk into a convenience store and you’re gonna pay way more for that candy bar than if you
bought it at Costco, right? And that’s essentially their model is that we’re gonna offer
extreme convenience for you, and by the way, it’s gonna cost more. And I think, good for them, right? But I think it behooves us as
professionals to also be able to have a voice and communicate
what’s really happening there so the consumers can see the whole picture and say,
okay, I could take that. It’s gonna cost me that much. Or I could market it and
sell it myself at retail, and it’s gonna cost me this much. And which one do I wanna do, right? Not sticking our head in the sand. This isn’t happening and my clients aren’t
paying attention to this. They are paying attention to this. That’s the big thing you really need to realize is that, no,
they’re seeing the billboards. Because these companies are well funded. These are D.C. and Wall
Street backed companies. They’re spending money we
could never keep up with. – They’re so valuable. That SAS model is 30 times earnings. Their negative, and as soon
as they can start making a profit, they go through
the roof on valuation. – Yeah, and so you can’t outspend them, but real estate agents can have an impact, and other sales professionals can have an impact within their sphere,
and their database, right? They don’t need to operate at the scale that these
massive tech companies do. They can have an amazing
business taking care of 300 families repeatedly. And those referrals, year
after year, after year, but in order to penetrate those
300 people, to educate them, there is a difference and
what their difference is and what they get by going with a full service real estate
advisor, that’s on them. They have to be able to not
only have that value, have that track record of offering that value, but they have to be able to communicate it in a one to one setting to where people get it and understand it, realize the difference. They also need to be able to broadcast it to have a bigger voice and
tell people that are gonna be referred to them and the community at large that, hey, there is a difference. There’s a difference shopping at a second hand store
versus Nordstrom, you bet. The prices are gonna be
different, but the quality and experience is gonna
be very different as well. – That’s really interesting
you bring that up, because we talk about Ritz-Carlton service and some of these others. You use these different
monikers, but the whole idea is that you’re gonna
receive a higher degree of service when you’re
going into annuities or whatever else, and you know you’re gonna pay up the nose for it. What’s weird is you’re paying up the nose for less service if
you’re going through some of these software programs. I said SAS earlier, software as a service. I remember, when I forget,
when people tell me that, whenever they say, oh,
there’s a SAS model. It’s software as a service, so
there’s still a service, it’s just you’re choosing
not to deal with people. And so the big question is, why are you choosing not to do it with people? You don’t want to have an advisor, or you don’t trust people? Or you don’t wanna deal with the headaches because there’s push
salespeople out there? What is it, what are you
seeing in that world? – Yeah, man, I think most agents, to this day are still
scared of video, right? You and I have set up our
offices to be video studios because we believe strongly that we have a message that’s important
to get out there. And one to one settings
is not fast enough. We don’t have the backing, the funding to be able to compete with these VCN, Wall Street
backed tech companies, but we can compete on an
organic grassroots level. And I think real estate agents
have to start to educate the fact that they’re not paying
more for, not ROI on that. Clients are maybe paying more. Upfront, if you look at just
the fees, straightforward fees, but if you look at the net return, right? That’s where agents need
to start to speak up and sales professionals
need to stat to speak up to say, let’s look at three months down the road, let’s look at
a year down the road. How did this turn out? Five years down the road, right? I was actually teaching
a class on this topic, and I asked agents, I said, “Can you think “of a time when you gave
somebody great advice “that turned out really
well for the client?” And somebody raised their hand right away and said, “Yeah, I told
the client not to sell.” They came to me and said,
“Will you sell my home?” This was kind of in the lows of 2008. So I just wanna get out of this thing. So, I don’t think you
should sell this home. And it would have sold for $215,000. He said he just sold the home
for $750,000, 10 years later, and he said it would have
been easy for me to collect a commission that I probably
needed at that time, but I knew it was not
in his best interest. So there’s a $500,000 net gain for that client by
listening to that advice. And it’s like, I said,
“Have you told that story?” And he said, “Not really.” And I said there’s a problem with that. You need to be taking those stories, and you give good advice and
use that in your portfolio of, hey, it’s not just that
I have good photography and pretty Joan photography. Let me tell you about the net difference in using me over not using,
some discount provider that just has written an algorithm
to do the bare fundamentals of marketing and selling your home. – There’s also, whenever I look at the software, there’s some
really great things out there. I just kinda look at it
as that’s one element, and the other element is that people that actually know what’s going on, know history,
especially in real estate. You’re making some pretty
big purchases there. I wouldn’t wanna just base it off of what I was able to see online. But I have purchased
property sight unseen, but it’s because I trusted the
person that was selling it, that I had a relationships with them. And they’re saying, “Hey, here’s “what these houses are going for.” Here’s what our rents are
gonna be and all those things. And you do the trust but verify. But still, it was that relationship. I didn’t have that trust. I cannot imagine buying or selling something just
straight off the Internet. It trips me out, to be honest, it’s weird. – Yeah, and it’s, again, the
wealth needle for most people, the buying and selling of a home is the largest
transaction they’ll ever do. There are other investors
where that’s not the case, but for the average
American, that’s the reality. And I think because that can have such an impact upon somebody’s wealth, it moves the wealth needle so much.
– You need an expert. You need an expert, period. You need to have an invite. You always need a guide. So, if you’re climbing
up Everest, you need a guide, that’s your
first time climbing it up. If you’ve done it a whole bunch, maybe you just need some support, but for the most part
you’re doing something for the first time or
the second, or the third? If it’s not your profession,
make sure you have a guide. I think Zillow and all
those things are great. They’re fun to look at houses
when you’re driving by. How much is that? You can see information pretty quick, but it doesn’t have the human element. – Yeah. – What drives you, Justin? Because it seems to be like you have a pretty strong focus, and a pretty strong will, and a good sense of who you are, what drives you? – I appreciate that. I’m a family guy at heart. So, surprisingly, I know I
haven’t shared this with you, but my wife and I have
six children together and we’ve–
– You’ve been busy. – I know, we have been. My oldest will be 13 in November. So you can imagine the Stoddart household has four little girls and
two boys under the age of 13. And that’s kinda who we are. At the core, I believe that there’s a lot of joy and happiness that
comes out of family life. And I feel like a lot of times the personalities
that we tend to follow or glamorous are people that live a lifestyle very contrary to that. And to each their own, but I wanna make a case that happy family
life is where it’s at. Again, that’s my opinion,
that’s my perspective. But I want young people
and others to be able to see somebody who’s passionate and successful in their profession. And, yet, can have a
family, whether that be a small family or a big family like mine. But if you talk to anybody,
they have life at the end of, like, it’s their family relationships and their close friend
relationships that matter the most. And I think sometimes that’s lost in the pursuit of other things. That’s part of what drives me to wanna be in a bigger stage is, from a professional
standpoint, I’ve got a mission to help well-paid sales
professionals remain that way. On a personal level, again, I wanna make the case that family life is
a really great way to live. – What percentage of the
successful agents, this is a complete aside, what percentage of successful agents are just
single people versus married? Do you see that there’s
a difference between ’em? – It’s interesting, I feel
like the ones that have a healthy work-life balance
are married. (laughing) – We may as well just ban the show at this point, I’m just kidding. (laughing) – Once I’ve understood
the value of leverage, of hiring an assistant, of putting in systems and
technology that helps them. Those are the ones that either are married and/or stay married. There’s others that don’t, and they try and be all
things to all people. And typically their family becomes more of a side dish than the main dish. And you see some turnover
there in the family department. I think there’s probably
a fairly clear distinction of those that run their business like a business, long-term
sustainable have a family. And that’s part of the
reason why their motivated to get up and do what they
do, day in and day out. Good realtors work
really hard, long hours. They also know how to create boundaries and show up like a professional. If you were a medical
specialist, you would be able to get a hold of me in
the middle of the night. It was an ER doctor,
you’d make an appointment and have a very select series of appointment times that I’d
be available to meet with you. I feel like, the more, again, that real estate agents
can work like that, some of those appointments
being with their spouse for a date night, and
their kids for family time. Can they treat–
– It creates value in that scarcity. – Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. – Yeah, I agree, and also it
shows that you actually care. You have other things
in the world other than just money, otherwise you’d
answer the phone at 2 a.m. – Right, yeah, just another dollar. – Oh, I need to get
this, I need to get this. I think we’ve all been guilty. Because I’m a small business owner. I have been for more than
two decades and I sit here, and we have 250 employees that all have needs and
wants, and everything else. You wanna help ’em, but at the
same token you realize that, if you don’t have a balance, you’re toast, you’re not gonna make it. It’s gonna burn you out
after just a few years and you start realizing
that, yeah, you have to have some you time, and your family, and you need to make sure
that you’re spending time with your spouse, or your
significant other, or your dogs or your cats, whatever it is,
you better have some you time. – Yeah, that’s pretty cool. – I don’t come across too many people that vocalize it nowadays. It’s almost like they’re scared to say, by the way, I believe in
having kids and a family. It’s almost like–
(laughing) Waiting to get smacked
by somebody out there. – Yeah, your carbon footprint’s
too big, man, or something. – You’re so selfish, you’re procreating? – It’s interesting how, a lot of times I’ll hear people,
like, how do you do that with, because they’re so expensive these days. And it’s like, we make
them expensive, right? For me, I earned my way through college. Six kids, it’s a little
bit daunting, right? There’s gonna be some weddings. But at the end of the
day, I think the best way to, you know, in the olden
days, you used to look at families, people would
actually have kids, not because they were a lot of work, but because they had a lot of
work for them to do, right? – Yep.
– We had more kids ’cause we had a big farms. And somehow our society
switched to point of, instead of kids being helpful and workers, they became
not helpful and work. – They’re a net loss. – Yeah.
– That happens. – They’re so expensive.
– It used to be that they were a net gain because the labor of the child would more
than cover their cost. Now it’s the kids are a net cost. – Yeah, yeah. – If that’s why you’re
having kids, you got trouble. – Right. (laughing) So we don’t do the best job
of this, but I’m really trying to raise kids that they’re
gonna be paying for. I’m training my son now to start a lawn care business and a
pressure washing business. And I said, as soon as you can do it to these standards, I’d be happy to go promote you to the
neighborhood and get you some jobs. Let’s do it together. And he’s getting really close. This summer, he was on track. He was meeting the standards,
and he realized that if there are certain things that are above and beyond what we’re willing to pay for him, he’s gonna
have to come up with it. Intend on having a similar path for college and other
extracurricular activities, and hopefully–
– Here in Portland, you’ve gotta use this pressure washer to spray the stuff off,
the moss off of stuff. – Sounds good. – You guys would spray off the dust. (laughing) – That’s true, everything grows here, even when you don’t want it to. – Yeah, just thinking about
that, that is awesome. Did you get him a pressure washer? – Yes, I do, we have one. But he’s not trained on that. We’re cutting the lawn
and we’re gonna graduate, and then we’re gonna step
up to the pressure washer. – That is awesome, that is so cool. So, he’s 13, and you could have him work for any business that you have
and you could always pay him. – See, that’s what our–
– He’s able to do stuff. – That’s where you will
come in handy, my friend, is that there’s some tax benefits to thinking that way as well. – Oh, shoot, yeah, you never wanna pay tuition out of your pocket. You wanna pay your kid
out of your business and let them pay for it. But they got–
– Well, this is, this is a great story, actually. Actually, the one that I’m talking about there is my son, he’s 11. – Oh, wow. – Yeah, my daughter’s already babysitting and doing pretty well for herself. My six year old, this is
one of my favorite stories. She goes into the dollar store because they were buying, I
think, me, birthday presents. I had a birthday recently. And my daughter is just
filling up her cart, and my son who’s 11, who
understands the value of money, he’s like, “Alanis,
you can’t buy all that.” You’re gonna run out of money. And she looks at him and says, “Corbin, we “just have to make more
lemonade.” (laughing) – She’s figured it out. – Exactly, right? Instead of the scarcity
mentality, now I’m also a fan of not spending all that you
have or more than you have, but I thought, sometimes we
overcomplicated things, right? I don’t think, like, no, stop,
there’s a scarcity of money. And she’s just like, “No, we’ll just go make
more lemonade, it’s cool.” She’s got a lemonade stand,
some people tipped her well, and she’s like, “It’s easy, we “just make more lemonade,” and then voila. – Did they pay for the lemonade? – Yeah, that’s right, we gotta almost work on her cost of goods. (laughing) What’s being accounted for here? – Yeah, I need a few more gallons, dad. And you’re like, all right, all right. That’s really cool, again, I’m a big fan. My daughter just graduate from college. She’s gonna go to med school. She took the MCAT, she did really well. So she’s all excited now. And I’m looking at the tuition going, holy crap, it’s
expensive to become a doctor. – Yeah, boy, congrats to you,
there, that’s impressive. You raised a good daughter. – It’s wonderful, but you look at it and you just realize that, I
cannot imagine what I would be like if I didn’t
have a wife and a child. I’m not saying everybody needs
to do it, but it’s bizarre. It really does shape who you are. I think of my partners in this business and what our focus is,
and what our goals are, and when we communicate
with clients, how many are creating a legacy and
how many are really creating? And I love it. I just love hearing people that are actually looking for
something beyond just themselves. – Yeah.
– And I think that kids force us to
be a little selfless. – Yeah, they really do. – Yeah, cool, back to real estate, I don’t
know where we got that from. – That’s a good little side note. – Just a slight, sometimes you go down the rabbit holes, but I like it. And that’s what matters. (laughing) – Probably keeps it interesting for the folks at home too. (laughing) – If there was one or two
things that you’re seeing as big difference makers
for the realtors that are actually having success, what would those one or two things be? – Yeah, man, I think step number
one is that they, agents… So then they have a
scarcity mentality, right? They don’t make enough lemonade. They end up working with bad clients. They end up answering the
call at all times of the day. Step number one is probably,
always fundamentally, you need more business than you think you need. Because that way you can say, no, to the stuff that doesn’t
fit your standards. I believe the customer’s always right, but not everybody has to be your customer. You can say, this isn’t a fit, let me refer you to somebody else. But if you don’t have enough
customers, you can’t make that decision and you’re
stuck working with people that are bad for your business,
bad for your mindset, bad for your quality of life. And so I think step
number one is agents need to spend more time developing business
than they think they do. – Firing bad clients. – Yeah, yeah, creating a
standard and sticking to it. – So rule number one is fire
more clients. (laughing) – Yeah, more so that you
can fire, how about that? You can get more clients–
– You give yourself an option of who you wanna work with.
– Yeah. – What’s another big one? And I agree with that 100%. There was a guy that said,
“You wanna make more money? “Fire 20% of your clients every year.” I was like, “Are you kidding me? “No way, I work too
hard to bring them in.” And they’re like, “Nah,
just trust me on it.” Now I kinda see his point. What was number two? – Number two, I would say is real estate agents
need to have a voice. We’re living in a time, in
an era, again, where there are massive amounts of money
being poured into changing the consumer mindset, and they will continue
to win over the mindset. If agents continue to be afraid of video, continue to be
afraid of speaking up, continue to be afraid of educating us
and step into the expert role is that you are an expert,
you need to wear the hat. Step up and actually
educate as many people as you can reach that you are
different than technology. And I think overcoming that fear of video is only done by doing video. You just have to get over
the fact that you are not a bookkeeper stuck in some back cubicle. You chose a public
profession, whether you’re in real estate insurance
or whatever, you chose a public facing role and
you have to own that, and you need to get out and
start speaking the truth about the difference between you and a highly tech operated offering. – You’re gonna have to
differentiate yourself and make yourself the only viable option. Anybody can go online, anybody could call up the Yellow Pages. I don’t know if you still use Yellow
Pages now (laughing), Google. But anybody can go look around there, but in order to differentiate,
they actually have to be able to figure out
who the heck you are. I love that. So, your organization, the business that you guys
said, the TB behind you. Tell me about that. – TB stands for think bigger, something I’ve really
gotten passionate about. I realize that, well,
oft quoted adage which is, you are the sum average of the five people you
spend the most time with. And I think in times past, we were stuck with whoever was in our direct
contact, physical contact. Part of, in this world in which we live now, is that
people are highly accessible. I have Twitter conversations with Mel Robbins, who’s
a best selling author. Just people who are
major influencers, that are not as untouchable as you think they are, that you can
actually get mentors that are far above and beyond you. I think the purpose of
my show is, number one, just selfishly to make me smarter, that if I could hand pick who I wanted to be in conversations with, people like Toby Mathis, everyday,
it’s gonna rub off on me and I’m gonna have more
to offer my clients. – I may have just took your
sum total down a little bit. – I don’t think so. (laughing) – I’m messing up with your average. (laughing) – I don’t think so, but that opportunity for me, again, to have
a reason to reach out to people like you to say, “Hey, I’d love “to have you on my show,”
puts us in conversation. It’s a value offering
for other people, right? And really the idea behind think bigger is to expand people’s thinking. Anything that they do
in life was pre-created in their mind by their thoughts. If you never think it, you’ll
never achieve it, right? Whereas if you think it, and
you think it regularly enough, and in the right perspective, there’s a reality that that’s gonna
come to fruition at some point. So it’s starting to change
the thinking which influences the way people see themselves, the conversations they’re
having with themselves, and the conversations that
they’re having with other people, and then the things
that they’re able to do, the life that they’re able to lead and the impact that they’re able to have. But it all begins in your own mind. And so I’m building this community of people that wanna think
bigger, that realize that they were actually designed to do more than just be a pawn, right? Or to follow someone else’s game plan. But to do something, create themselves. That’s different for everybody out there, for some, it means owning a business, for some, it means being
a key player in business, for some, it means being great
at being a dad and a husband. And for some, it means all of that, right? But whatever that is for
them is to reach their, be in pursuit of their potential. To be a student of human potential and realize that there’s more
that they can be achieving and contributing in the world, and it’s a movement around that. People that resonate with that just say, “Yeah, there’s more “in me than what I’m showing right now “and I wanna be around
people that think that way “and help me become that way.” – First off, that’s awesome, and second off, I will put
your link up with this podcast. Just, Think Bigger Real Estate, right? – Yeah,,
so .realestate. So many people don’t realize and they try to put a .com at the end, but it’s actually, is the website. – – Yeah.
– All right, I’ll make sure I put a link, ’cause I’ll
butcher that up all day long. Think Bigger Real Estate, .realestate. – That’s right. – I happen to agree. Well, there was an old adage, I love to repeat it once in a while. It’s not my drinkin’ that’s got me stinkin’, it’s my thinkin’ that’s got me drinkin’. (laughing) It’s the old checkup from the neck up. You’re trying to figure
out what’s going on in the eight inches between your
ears and it’s gonna lead us to do, and limit ourselves when there’s really no limits that have to be out there, frankly. We’re not all made the same. We all have different
talents and abilities. Something was flying at me. We all have talents and
different abilities, and it’s just doing the
best with what you’ve got. And everybody has the ability to maximize their potential, regardless of what that potential is. – I totally agree. – I think that’s cool
that you’re doing that. So I’ll stick that out there. Any final thoughts? – Again, I wanna appreciate,
just express my gratitude for this conversation, being around guys like you, again, expand my thinking. I often ask at the end of my show, the Think Bigger Real Estate
Show, I ask people, “What is “something that you do to
continue to be a big thinker?” And I think, for me, as I thought about that, what would I say? And I think it’s intentionally
having conversations with people like Toby Mathis and others that help expand my thinking, that there’s no substitute
for being around people that are doing really great things to inspire you to wanna do great things. I would just encourage people
to continue to follow Toby and other big thinkers,
and watch what happens. Your life will start to change in a hurry. – Love it, I’m gonna be watching you too. I’m excited to see where
you’re at in the future. I always love this, but the fact of the matter is one of the coolest things
about being in business is other business owners and watching them grow their businesses. And I’ve seen some big
explosions where you’re like, “Wow, that happened.” I remember the 99 cent only stores or the friend, my mentors,
now they’re everywhere. But I still crack up, and I’m like, “Hey, I remember that,
when they first started.” (laughing) – Yeah, it’s pretty cool.
– That would be great. – We’ll keep our eye on you,
and if anybody listening wants to cruise on over to, do it. It’s always good. It’s good consumption of good information to help you be the best you,
so I think that’s awesome. – That’s a compliment.
– Thanks for joining me today. – Yeah, it’s my pleasure, Toby. Thanks again for the opportunity. – You got it. (upbeat music)

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